Poll: Do you have to go to church to be a true believer?

Catholics definitely have to go to church. I remember a local bishop actually giving people permission to not attend church last month when we had 50 inches of snow in two storms - although people weren't excused after the first storm dropped 2 or 3 feet. So I guess at least if they got killed trying to drive to church after the first storm, they wouldn't burn in hell. What a consolation.

Idiocy .... but if they don't go to church the priests can't control them.

Yeah ... otherwise it would have been a sin, even if they were risking their lives by driving or couldn't get out of their driveways.

Katrix

I'm not sure which diocese you are in but mine in Minnesota is okay with missing church and makes no demands of binding monitary commitments from anyone and our church is a place where like mind choose to gather and worship in a committed fashion. We believe in our commitment to gather it does make those who choose not to gather any less of a believer. It simply makes us willing to give of out time ,treasure and talent. These are the gifts of God given to us by our labor. My Gods peace be bestowed upon you.

igoforo ... peace be bestowed upon you, too. I have no clue if I'm even in a diocese (I'm not catholic) , but it was good to hear your explanation. It's great to be able to learn from someone who nicely explains their point of view.

According to the quality control handbook yes. Assembling together promotes spiritual unity and encouragement and fellowship.

Assembling together is important. That said, this verse does not tell us where or how to do that. Gathering in small home meetings for mutual fellowship, prayer, and Bible reading, etc., for example, would seem to satisfy this exhortation just fine. Furthermore, I don't see where it says that you are not a true believer if you do not assemble together.

True belief, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is what is necessary to be a believer. Assembling with others who believe will afford mutual help to walk on this path, and to be built up together as members of the Body of Christ, and is therefore strongly encouraged.

Misery loves company

²⁴And^(AF) let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, ^25(AG) not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and^(AH) all the more as you see^(AI) the Day drawing near.

When that was written, society didn't have school to go to, or work to go to, or shopping or even errands to the degrees that we do now.

I do my "meeting" when tending to all the above. I do not make a special effort to make my presence be known in a church house on Sunday mornings anymore. Those days are gone for me.

Matthew 18:19-20: "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Just another reenforcing reason to gather.

igoforo.......I am not a believer but I was wondering when someone would quote that.

I was thinking also of the passage that says (pardon me for paraphrasing)

Jesus said...."Except through me ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven."

In other words you only have to believe in God to get to heaven, not go to church.

In another version of Hebrews 10:22-25, we see that "let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) and let us consider one another to rpovike unto love and to good works; not forsaking the assemblies of oruselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

It follows a discussion of what Jesus' death meant for redemption from sin. The drawing near with a true heart is meant to be a drawing near to Jesus as savior, not a drawing near to each other in a church. In the Bible, "church" and "community" were synonymous. This passage can easily be read as encouraging Christians to support one another in the pursuit of faith, but hard as an exhortation to meet regularly in a specific place.

steve

I have no problem with that at all it means is you aren't religious. I'd welcome you whether you believe or not all stangers are welcomed by me because they are an unknown entity. I choose who I like or dislike after meeting them and getting to know them. I do find first inpression very important. Give me 20 to 30 minutes with a new person and I will have drawn my conclusions about him or her by then.

Thomas Kempis, a fourteenth century monk relates a story of a man who stopped attending church. A priest vistited the man by a campfire, bumbed one of the burning logs from the fire and quitely sat with the man as the log burned out sitting apart from the fire. The man got the message.

So, the message is we're all suppose to burn together? No thanks.

It's also helpful to perpetuate group delusion.

I have no doubt that we are well aware of the downside, as that is all people seem to be willing to discuss.

But there is an upside, in a shared sense of community and positive goals for self and society.

That's one of the best comments I've read all week! I absolutely loved it! You forgot Jews for Jesus ...

You forgot Jews for Jesus .

They only go to Church on Saturday, I didn't think that even counted.

It makes it much easier to control the masses. I always wondered why it was so neccessary for the Southern Baptist and evangelicals to need revivals. When I either enjoy something or need to learn something I do it. I do not need to continously pump myself back up or it is forgotten. I have lived in places where they are common and they are more similar to a circus than anything else.

Not all religions think it's their adherents' responsibility to go out and preach and spread the word. Those are probably the religions that have had the least amount of atrocities committed in their gods' names, too.

To me it's not in the least about what god - if any - you believe in, or whether you attend a church, synagogue, mosque or skyclad forest ritual; it's all about how you live your life and how you treat other people.

Everybody can build a building and put a cross on top of it. Can we therefore call it God's home?

It all depends, doesn't it?

If we go by one religion, the Church is built to house the tabernacle which contains the Blessed Sacraments.

Look, you can talk with clergy, you can talk with us, you can talk to God, but in truth, none of us here can answer that question for you. This is something you have to decide for yourself.

I can only tell you what I believe, and what I believe is that God is expecting a little more than just believing. He demands commitment and he expects sacrifice.

The bible says God does not need anything made by human hands. It also says he is a spirit and should be worshiped in spirit. So putting a cross on a house does not make it God's house. However a building is a good place to teach the truth.

The bible says God does not need anything made by human hands.

Didn't humans make the Bible with human hands?

Does God read the bible?

The content of the bible was sent by God through Jesus. It was meant for men, not God.

Good point, VerbalBarb, I would also wonder about the rest human invention. They confuse God with nature.

The content of the bible was sent by God through Jesus. It was meant for men, not God.

I'm confused, I guess. You seemed to be negating churches as being needed for belief in God, but you're ok with a book written by man as being needed for knowledge of God?

The Bible was written by man. Why would it be needed to have a relationship with God? Since the Bible was written by man, how do you know it was sent by God through Jesus? Just because the men who wrote it said so?

You are confused because you go by opinions instead of facts. I said God does not need anything made by people. The churches and bible are for helping humans only. If a man wrote a book on his own it means nothing. If that book was written by a man based on what God told him then it means much. Math books are written by men but most people need to read instructions to do math. Religion also needs books and teachers to teach others. I don't personally know that Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. I don't personally know my parents were married. i don't personally know George Washington ever lived. I accept the accounts of people who had first hand knowledge. Knowing the truth of a religious is a spiritual matter and like believing in the big bang, has to be taken on faith because neither can be proved.

The Bible was written by man

And several hundred years after the events it was based on actually occurred (well, the old testament was based on myths much older than a few hundred years). Have you ever played telephone? Imagine having no form of writing, passing these stories along, and then turning them into a book that everyone obeyed for centuries. We hate corporations these days, but the oldest monopoly in modern history is still tax exempt.

If people find comfort in worshipping with a congregation, more power to em'. I for one do not. I find my comfort in the quiet times with just me and my God. I like to think that we know one another and that I act accordingly in society.

If a tribal bushman in some far off land, who treats his fellow humans with dignity and respect. raises his family to do the same, and does no harm to others. Is this man not in Gods good graces. Even though he has never known our view of religion?

Schnoz, I've given similar scenarios/analogies over the years and agree with you 100%. My husband is ex-military and Catholic (I'm not). Here's one I gave him:

We were discussing taking communion etc. (He'd told me he could not take communion if he hadn't been to confession). So I asked him if he was stationed in some remote area away from a church and consequently there was no little closet with a man in it for him to confess his sins to, exactly what was he supposed to do? Don't pass go, don't collect $200 and go straight to hell? He was at a loss when I kept asking why can't you use the 1-800 number and call the Lord directly like everybody else. He gave me some 'intercession' explanation. I told him I'd stick with my own personal connection because I didn't need a middle man.

Although he never goes to church/mass, he is still Catholic to the bone. But the thing is, he could never really tell me why he did/believed the things he does, other than that's 'what he was taught'. (We don't discuss religion anymore after a big blowout on the subject of prayer years ago).

I'm completely the opposite of him. I questioned pretty much everything I was taught growing up and now believe that many of the churches/their leadership are shams and in it for personal gain. I'm of the mindset that a person's relationship with God is a personal one and you don't need to go to or belong to some church or organized religion to have it.

Speaking specifically of Catholics from the vantage point of my hubby and mostly his entire (extended) family, they seem to not be able to see the viewpoints of others, nor discuss them with an open mind and proudly wear their blinders.

I can remember asking him in the early 90's when the big pedophile scandal broke back then, how on earth he could be affiliated with some organization that would knowingly hide such heinous crimes against children all the while letting it continue and NOT TURN THE LAWBREAKERS IN TO THE POLICE!!

If character can be defined as what you do when nobody is watching... Can't true believer be defined in similiar terms... What you believe when nobody asks you. What you believe when you don't really want something in return.

Defining a true believer is easy. If someone truly believes in God he will obey God, unless he is a total idiot. So a true believer is someone who understands and daily follows the teaching of Jesus to the best of his ability. Keeping in mind no follower is perfect.

I understand your point. But I hope I am wrong in assuming that you are saying that people that don't believe are "total idiots". I would disagree with that.

Yeah, but if someone believes in God, goes to church, and beat his wife, he considers himself a true believer than someone who doesn't go to church. Some people believe in God, consider themselves higher than others, but still sin. In comparison, those that believe in God, but don't go to church, but rarely sin. Of the two, who would be considered the true believer?

It's very broad.

Also, what do you mean by "there's the bottleneck?"

"... it's hard ( at least for me) to define a true believer. You can practice religion in so many different ways."

The way I see it, practicing religion has very little to do with being a true believer. Belief is in the heart, from the spirit. Outward religious practices may or may not accurately reflect a person's true inner condition.

Define true believer.

Now there's the bottleneck.

Indeed, "true believer" is defined as whatever any self-proclaimed true believer thinks of himself.

The way I see it, practicing religion has very little to do with being a true believer.

A point which bears repeating. Faith and religion are NOT the same thing! Religion as practiced in some (many?) places can actually impede faith, as witness the number of people posting who have been turned off by the hypocrisy they have encountered. Been to a few of those "churches" myself.

GGSusi - I'm asking you and any other Catholic viners: Do you believe it is possible for other people to pray for you. For instance could I ask you Susi "Please pray for me, Heyford, that my 'whatever problem' goes away". Or can I ask a pastor of my church (lets say a Pentecostal church) and the asst ministers and 'prayer warriors' to pray for me? My hubby said Catholics do not believe this.

Now seeing as how I've been married to him for a long time and know that he is one prone to believe what 'Joe Blow told me or Joe Blow said' without verification of anything or worse yet, only half listens and gets things backwards and mixed up sometimes, he's liable to have been arguing out the side of his neck.

We had a WWIII argument years ago about praying and who can do it (as mentioned above). I told him he must have misheard or misunderstood something in the translation, which only made him madder.

He has never ever liked discussing religion with me because it was always about what he was taught. It would infuriate me and I'd say 'but what do you think?!' or 'what do you think this bible verse right here means?' It was like he was so very afraid to voice an opinion or belief other than that which he had been taught.

Whereas, myself (raised Baptist Sunday school and Pentacostal church services) questioned pretty much everything I'd been taught. I still get angry about some of the stuff that was for the most part instilled upon me through what I describe as fear and brainwashing.

What anyone thinks does not matter. What Jesus said does matter and his teaching is easy to understand for anyone who can read rather than one who will accept someone's opinion.

Anyone can pray for you. It is much better for you to ray for yourself. And remember there are several conditions for a prayer being answered, and sometimes the answer is no. Also many prayers will be answered in the next life, not this one.,

"What anyone thinks does not matter. What Jesus said does matter and his teaching is easy to understand for anyone who can read rather than one who will accept someone's opinion."

Since we're not reasoning from opinions, how's that been working out for society? Would one more disciple make it work out right? Or maybe one more priest? Or if we just say it a few thousand more times maybe it'll finally come true?

People need to get rid of their command phrases or they're never going to be able to recognize the difference between right and wrong. Or understand Jesus.

Truth is truth whether one person or one billion say it. I lie is a lie even if one trillion say it.

Do you believe it is possible for other people to pray for you.

Heyford,

Of course it is. As a Catholic, read this to your husband....

The Church teaches that, immediately after death, the soul of each person will receive a particular judgment from God, based on the deeds of that individuals earthly life. This teaching also attests to another day when Christ will sit in a universal judgment of all mankind. This final judgment, according to Church teaching, will bring an end to human history and mark the beginning of a new and better heaven and earth ruled by God in righteousness.

The basis upon which each person's soul will be judged is detailed in the Gospel of Matthew which lists works of mercy to be performed even to people considered "the least". Emphasis is upon Christ's words that "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven".

According to the Catechism, "The Last Judgement will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life."

Depending on the judgement rendered, a soul may enter one of three states of afterlife. Heaven is a time of glorious union with God and a life of unspeakable joy that lasts forever. Purgatory is a temporary condition for the purification of souls who, although saved, are not free enough from sin to enter directly into heaven.

^" Souls in purgatory may be aided in reaching heaven by the prayers of the faithful on earth and by the intercession of saints."

Finally, those who chose to live a sinful and selfish life, did not repent, and fully intended to persist in their ways are sent to hell, an everlasting separation from God. The Church teaches that no one is condemned to hell without having freely decided to reject God. No one is predestined to hell and no one can determine whether anyone else has been condemned. Catholicism teaches that through God's mercy a person can repent at any point before death and be saved. Some Catholic theologians have speculated that the souls of unbaptised infants who die in original sin are assigned to Limbo although this is not an official doctrine of the Church.

So if you think someone you know who has died is worthy of being sent to heaven, pray for him/her.

In my daily prayers I include "May God Bless all people in the world, living and deceased, all family members and thank you for Magoo. Keep the ones I love safe."

Then I eat.

Heyford,

I don't know where you got your information, but yes, Catholics can and do include people in their prayers.

Now, what really ticks people off is when Catholics pray to Mary. That's the one that really gets them going. With some people, I just let it go, because no matter what I say to them, their only purpose is to attack me or my faith. They accuse me of putting someone above God, and that isn't the purpose of praying to Mary, the mother of Christ.

Some people really are interested and I have no problem answering their questions.

Oh, and by the way, I love the statues. The gaudier the better. I love 'em!

Thanks dkaz for your insight.

That's not my insight, Henry. That's the teachings of the Church.

And as a Priest once said to me after many hours of picking his brain over a cup of coffee with Baileys in it.........."Love it or leave it. The Laws are the Laws and there are plenty of other religions out there to be a part of."

Hypocrites. Well, there you go, henry. That's a whole other topic, isn't it?

It sounds to me like the place(s) you have attended may have many who are not "true believers," and perhaps you should consider finding a group of true believers who gather together in simplicity and truth, who really do love the Lord Jesus and live to Him. There are many such believers, and they do not always "attend church." Rather, they *are* the church, and may meet in many different venues.

I've been to many churches, and have never found a church made up entirely of "true believers." I've found churches made up of lots of humans who are trying their best to be good, and sometimes succeeding ... sometimes not. Some of the "true believers" are hypocrites while the ones who admit they struggle are honest. The church leaders tend to screw the parishioners for the most part; organized religion is so political and rules so much of the financial world ... it's scary.

@26.6 I agree with your statement about organized religion, and I question whether the hypocrites are "true believers"--at least as I understand that term.

I meet with many, who are very human, who believe in and love the Lord Jesus in sincerity and truth, who are endeavoring to live out the Christian life in their daily lives (while recognizing the struggle involved in doing so) and who are reaching out to those around with compassion and love. This is what I am talking about, and I have found such true believers in many cities.